Volunteer Live Team

Posted on: January 26, 2018, by :

Unfortunately today (Wednesday, March 15, 2017), the owner and founder of the VolunteerLiveTeam (legurnster) decided, without warning or prior discussion, to relocate the team from Slack to Facebook for Work. When opposition was met, he proceeded to carry out a hostile takeover of the team. Facebook, Twitter, and reddit accounts were locked out and deleted, and other team members left in the dark.

We are working hard to put together a new team and restore our prior functionality. We apologize for the inconvenience.

If you would like more information or are interested in joining the team and helping out, please email [email protected] or message /r/VolunteerLiveTeam on reddit.

Below is a transcript of the events transpired in our former Slack team. To ensure everyone’s privacy, all personal and identifying information has been redacted.

Timezone: UTC-5:00
[email protected]:~$ less /home/znc/.znc/users/evan/moddata/log/vliveteam-slack/\#general/2017-03-15.log
[12:43:05]  @channel: URGENT DISCUSSION - PLEASE REPORT IN IF YOU'RE FREE. [cc: muffinmedic]
[12:43:17]  hi
[12:43:20]  You rang?
[12:43:43]  So, the Live Team is in a state of disrepair right now.
[12:43:44]  Sup
[12:43:51]  Yo
[12:44:10]  yo
[12:44:33]  The anticipation is killing me
[12:44:36]  Our web site is unavailable, our team is divided and we have no clear policies.
[12:44:50]  We need to fix this. Our first step is to move everyone into one place.
[12:45:02]  Well everyone is on slack
[12:45:05]  Yes
[12:45:12]  That's the thing, user5.
[12:45:20]  We lose access to messages as time goes on.
[12:45:31]  And I ain't paying hundreds of pounds a month for Premium.
[12:45:50]  Morning all.
[12:45:52]  Why do we need messages from 6 months ago that no one reads anymore?
[12:46:07]  My slack team of 30 people costs $200 a month lmao
[12:46:11]  So imagine how much this one would
[12:46:17]  I've run into that issue in free slacks in the past, but a decent workaround for archiving is to log it with an attached irc client
[12:46:42]  Yes, archiving could also be done externally.
[12:46:46]  ^^
[12:46:55]  For the purpose of retention in this team I haven't noticed much of an issue since the events that unfold are typically more in the moment.
[12:46:55]  Footnote: slack premium is paid by member
[12:47:17]  (also, i have experience with BES legurnster. run away, run away quickly!)
[12:47:21]  Slack zip exports contain all messages (even old ones)
[12:47:27]  They assist in reviewing our responses, and help in other channels such as #lively-features.
[12:47:33]  That's not the only issue with Slack.
[12:47:46]  user7, reddit official work blackberries?
[12:48:00]  May god save me from carrying a blackberry again.
[12:48:12]  haha, nah in my last life in IT i supported exchange and BES
[12:48:13]  NOOOOOOOOO
[12:48:48]  Here's my executive plan:
[12:49:11]  So our problem is what with slack? It doesn't archive convos and what else? I know we had trouble with integration limits but I haven't heard anything on that
[12:49:18]  1. Move us to Facebook for Work. (controversial, I know - we own all the data though, it provides a strong platform for us to build on and puts us all in one place.)
[12:49:26]  Ps user8 and user7, I don't talk to you anymore not because I don't love you, but because my subs are on fire much less. :)
[12:50:00]  @user5: They're the main two issues.
[12:50:07]  We've experienced others in the past though.
[12:50:09]  Why is Facebook for work? I have never heard of it before
[12:50:21]  Business pages for official organizations.
[12:50:25]  @user5: DM me your e-mail address and I'll send you an invite.
[12:50:34]  @user4: Nope, it's a new system.
[12:51:01]  I'm seeing immediate PII issues when I see the word 'Facebook'.
[12:51:10]  @legurnster uploaded a file: Screen Shot 2017-03-15 at 16.50.42.png https://vliveteam.slack.com/files/legurnster/F4J3T8NJU/screen_shot_2017-03-15_at_16.50.42.png
[12:51:23]  legurnster, one thing to consider, and I feel selfish saying this, but moving off slack would make it more difficult for myself and other admins to lurk here simply because we're already quite integrated into the slack platform for our day to day stuff.
[12:51:42]  Your account is totally separate to your personal Facebook account
[12:51:44]  I'm not a fan of moving chat to fb
[12:51:52]  discord might be a viable alternative. personally, i quit using facebook several years ago and no longer keep an account.
[12:52:07]  @user7: Let's discuss further with your coworkers?
[12:52:26]  It's more a case of adding one more thing for everyone to use
[12:52:31]  So we can solve one main issue with slack by using an external archive system
[12:52:34]  A lot of people here already use slack so it's a viable option
[12:52:43]  super silent lurker stepping up: it's also a concern wrt pseudonymity of both users and admins
[12:52:49]  I'm predicting that the team is going to bleed members by forcing a move.
[12:53:04]  Then we just have the problem with integration, which I don't think is a main problem
[12:55:26]  @user5: Yes we could, but Facebook for Work provides us with a new oversight on the VLT that we can't get on Slack.
[12:55:26]  @user1: One more app makes very little difference in the grand scheme of things, if you ask me.
[12:55:26]  @user9: We own all the data and you can still use pseudonyms. Your account is separate to your personal one, if you have one.
[12:55:26]  @user3: I hope not.
[12:56:05]  One more app is one more thing to keep track of
[12:56:14]  I'd rather stick with Slack
[12:56:39]  I really don't see the problem with slack, I've come to like it actually
[12:57:01]  @user5: Have you tried Facebook for Work?
[12:57:12]  No
[12:57:24]  How about you try both and get your opinions together?
[12:58:33]  I would push back a little on the "one more app" piece because any given day I am pulled into several different directions between supporting mods and internal work. Since I've added some discord servers to the mix, I've also found more peace of mind by dropping other platforms like flowdock. I've relied on the at here alerts in the breaking channel to join new channels when an issue seems like it could have critical mass, and that system has worked very well for me to have eyes on something before it might blow up.
[12:59:32]  another super-lurker stepping up - anything that involved using Facebook would likely reduce our visibility and availability.   I'm not going to send my team to a direct competitor's platform.
[12:59:34]  :slightly_smiling_face:
[13:00:54]  I think we need to balance this, and I can see both sides. Have you ever tried Facebook for Work?
[13:02:56]  @user5 @user10: Have you got your invites?
[13:03:12]  Like others have said I think you'll lose people, slack doesn't give us many problems and yeah Reddit is a competition to Facebook so not a good idea for the admins to be on it
[13:03:16]  Let me check
[13:06:46]  @legurnster nothing on Facebook can't check my email until later.
[13:07:13]  @user5 Is Reddit competition to Facebook? Never heard that before...
[13:07:18]  @user10: It will go through to your e-mail - it's 100% separate to your personal Facebook. Our site is at https://vliveteam.facebook.com .
[13:08:08]  @legurnster gotcha I'll check my email tonight!
[13:08:47]  @user10 user8 just said they wouldn't send their team to a direct competitor
[13:09:09]  I'm willing to try it but im still with @user7 and @user8 not sure we need yet another platform
[13:09:32]  @user11: Send me your e-mail address over, you can try it out and see what you reckon.
[13:10:14]  @channel: Another idea would be to move to IRC. Opinions? [cc: muffinmedic]
[13:10:59]  I'm a fan of IRC however I really like the ease and push notification I get through slack...
[13:11:04]  Never liked irc
[13:11:12]  I'm just on  my way out, but why can't we stay with slack?
[13:11:14]  @user5 @user10: Invites sent.
[13:11:17]  what's wrong with slack?
[13:11:31]  So, I've got a plan here that I'm going to force upon us all...
[13:11:35]  Let's create a new Slack team.
[13:11:38]  This one is a mess.
[13:11:41]  it is?
[13:11:55]  Look at the channels list. Look at how many inactive users we have.
[13:12:07]  you can close their accounts if you want to
[13:12:12]  We'll organise the VLT into departments with specific responsibility.
[13:12:20]  We're gonna make a man out of this child.
[13:12:29]  @user12: we could but we've lost a lot of messages here.
[13:12:43]  irc wont solve that if that's your concern
[13:12:45]  @legurnster why are we changing again?
[13:13:13]  if you want logs, we can set up bots for that. log all messages to external source
[13:13:51]  This is pretty much the availability that I personally have to offer. That said, I'm only around as a liason for subreddit1 stuff (unless my specific help is wanted for something! I'm helpful, just busy). So my needs aren't a priority. Just noting, I can't be counted on to move and there are many platforms I won't even set up on for Reddit comms stuff.
[13:13:55]  i gotta head out. i'll do whatever you tell me to, but i'm not a fan of leaving slack :stuck_out_tongue:
[13:14:50]  IRC is one that stands no chance of having me idling in to be pinged, as an example. I pulled subreddit1 off IRC with sweat and blood :P
[13:15:26]  @user12: Fancy setting that up with me some time?
[13:15:38]  @user2: I think Slack is for the best.
[13:15:43]  Did anybody reach out to slack and see if they can't throw us a bone?
[13:15:56]  @user6: I intend to do that on the new team.
[13:16:09]  @legurnster don't forget that this team is run by a committee
[13:16:14]  @channel: We have a new Slack team (yes, I know... :joy:) Please send me your e-mail addresses to DM. [cc: muffinmedic]
[13:16:18]  You need to run things through with the rest of the tram
[13:16:26]  And how many of them have actually been here? Hmm.
[13:16:29]  Why new? :(.
[13:16:38]  @user2: See above.
[13:16:47]  Still not up to you to make big decisions like this
[13:16:49]  hey can i object to thi
[13:16:57]  @user1: I just did.
[13:17:00]  You can invite me but I can't set it up for a bit, I'm on my phone and traveling for work
[13:17:00]  If we are doing a new one, thats fine but lets be clear HOW we are going to use it from the start to make it different to this one
[13:17:03]  @user13: Go for it.
[13:17:11]  @user2: Drop me your e-mail.
[13:17:15]  @user11: Let's do it.
[13:17:21]  [email protected] mailto:[email protected]
[13:17:26]  (This is coming from someone who has used slack for over a year, and has admined several teams)
[13:17:27]  I do think staying here is better
[13:17:28]  https://vliveteam.slack.com/archives/general/p1489598220236191
[13:17:47]  yeah why are we making a new one already
[13:18:04]  Migrating to a new team will likely result in a lot of people not moving over... Sorry I'm in a meeting and may not to be up to date with the backscroll here.
[13:18:04]  @legurnster you've gotta be having a laugh
[13:18:08]  1. Too many channels is not a problem. Simply do /archive.
[13:18:08]  2. Too many inactive users isn't a problem either. Disable their accounts or keep them in here.
[13:18:08]  3. We _will_ end up losing people in this move,
[13:18:09]  Because, as the founder, I said we are.
[13:18:12]  Boi
[13:18:20]  The Committee was founded _because_ of this
[13:18:24]  Uh. I'll give you a minute on that idea heh.
[13:18:28]  @channel: If you want to move, send me your e-mail address. If you don't, good for you. [cc: muffinmedic]
[13:18:30]  I _literally_ wrote this idea.  Remember?
[13:18:33]  IMO lets keep this one but clean it up a bit. Its possible to basically reset this one to where we're left with just the user list, maybe thats better @here? [cc: muffinmedic]
[13:18:43]  Oh Jesus fucking Christ.
[13:18:49]  ^ me_irl
[13:18:50]  The decision to create the committee came from bad things that happened because you went out on your own and made bad decisions
[13:18:57]  +++++++++++++
[13:18:57]  [March 15th, 2017 10:18 AM] user1: The decision to create the committee came from bad things that happened because you went out on your own and made bad decisions
[13:18:59]  You're just fucking the team if you're going to do it again
[13:19:04]  @legurnster, member, you agreed to this.
[13:19:06]  And I'm over-rulling the committee.
[13:19:11]  You can't do that though.
[13:19:18]  That's not how this works
[13:19:20]  Like that was in the idea.
[13:19:24]  Watch me.
[13:19:24]  Is this a joke?
[13:19:25]  Bad move :/.
[13:19:35]  April's fools is in 2 weeks connor
[13:19:44]  Hold up for a second everyone.
[13:19:47]  I have tangential at best interaction here, but this is how you inform me that you don't want that.
[13:19:51]  @legurnster, please explain your reasoning.
[13:20:00]  (Please *no one else talk*)
[13:20:31]  I've explained my reasoning once and I have no intention of explaining it again. Do feel free to scroll up should you wish. If you want to be a part of the team, you can send me your e-mail address. Otherwise, you're fired. Simple.
[13:20:39]  Okay. this is bullshit.
[13:20:55]  Yeah @legurnster this isn't going to go down well with any other members of the team
[13:21:01]  The committee was made up because you made a stupid decsion on your own. Which is fine. We all make mistakes.
[13:21:02]  @legurnster you're going to lose this team.
[13:21:03]  _HOWEVER_
[13:21:11]  This isn't the first time this has happened either
[13:21:13]  No. This is how it's going to be. End of.
[13:21:21]  You weren't even on the damn committee until I recommended you.
[13:21:26]  I don't need this level of drama (and was shocked to see it, lol).
[13:21:29]  (1) The website is down because the VPS you owned is down, which I told you about two months ago and you said you would look into but never replied to.
[13:21:29]  (2) I'm not moving to a new Slack, that's dumb and offers no advantages.
[13:21:29]  (3) Fuck this, I'm out. I'm not putting up with this bullshit. You've gone too far this time and I have better things to do with my time.
[13:22:22]  This shit is fucking unacceptable. @user13 lemme know in DM Slack when you found a solution to this. I'm not going to entertain a petty dictatorship.
[13:22:30]  Will do optimal
[13:22:30]  I love to stick up for young people being able to do things (as I am one myself) but this is why you don't put a teenager in charge of a significant group
[13:22:33]  Everyone just chill the fuck out for a second
[13:22:36]  ^^^
[13:22:39]  I'm glad to participate in teams with teammates. I don't pretty much ever willingly sign up for some rando boss.
[email protected]:~$ less /home/znc/.znc/users/evan/moddata/log/vliveteam-slack/slackbot/2017-03-15.log
[13:22:43]  account_inactive

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